humanities.philosophy.objectivism

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:42:14 -0700, David Buchner
wrote:

>Malrassic Park wrote:
.
>> >Is that the name of the kid in the story? Let's please remember this is
>> >a high school kid, mouthing off. You don't remember being a high school
>> >kid, mouthing off? I sure do.
.
>> Campbell is an Objectivist. Objectivists never mouth off, not at any
>> age. Didn't you know that? Besides, it was an off-the-cuff statement
>> to a reporter. Mouthing off usually consists of a lot of verbal
>> insults and gibes designed to intimidate.
.
>Is that a central point of Objectivism I missed? That high school kids
>who read Ayn Rand are automagically blessed with tact and infallibility
>and stuff?
.
>Huh.

Yes, automagically, like you said.

>> He didn't use very precise words at all. And I don't base the school's
>> reaction on the PC movement, but on Columbine and the paranoid
>> tightening down of security afterwards in public schools throughout
>> the country.
.
>I agree.

That's better...

>> >What did the school do, in response to the complaints? Take them
>> >seriously? Worse: what did everybody automatically know to do when they
>> >felt "offended"? That's right: run and complain to some Authorities.
>> >Irrationality is protected, alright -- as long as it's *organized* and
>> >tax-exempt irrationality.
.
>> I didn't glean from the news story that the kids felt *offended.* I
>> got out of it that they felt threatened by his insulting, aggressive
>> attitude.
.
>I'm saying that the two words have somehow become synonymous, or at
>least closely linked, in the minds of many.

Many what? People of below average iq? Or are you referring to Mr.
Campbell? He just needs to end his obvious talent for package-dealing.

>> "Say something today that makes you a little nervous because someone
>> might not like you for it." [....]
.
>> But that is not what Campbell was doing, and it appeared threatening
>> to the Xian students.
.
>Because they're thin-skinned weenies, who've been taught that their
>feelings should never get hurt.

They need to be toughened up. How do you feel about re-initiating the
draft?

>> >You're talking now of his remarks after the hullaballoo?
.
>> Yes, we were discussing his remark to a reporter about religion being
>> protected in this country.
.
>But you were also discussing the actual tirade in class that led to the
>whole silly affair, yes?

I was also discussing class-formation, but that was a different
thread, and an equivocation.

>> >Uh, high school kid?
.
>> Remember, he was a self-proclaimed OBJECTIVIST high school kid.
>> According to the news story, Campbell had said:
>> 'Ayn Rand personifies her vision of man's existence in her magnum
>> opus, Atlas Shrugged. Rand says that the pursuit of our own happiness
>> should be our goal in life and that morality does not come from
>> others.'
.
>Yes?
.
>And?

You showed no awareness of his belief in Objectivism or the statements
he made about it, so I quoted them for you.

>> And as for his statement in the speech about the productive use of
>> reason: 'Things like faith, mysticism, and feeling restrict one from
>> productive, rational thought, and if we are not thinking, we are not
>> free.' But his demonstration was not a productive use of reason.
.
>> So, yes, "uh, high school kid." Uh, I mean, Objectivist high school
>> kid.
.
>(A) high school kids tend to mouth off about whatever they're convinced
>is Really Cool at the moment. That doesn't bear one way or another on
>the actual content of the thing itself, or its *actual* coolness.
>Tact? Not so much. You mentioned gently needling Mormons. Are you 17?
>I'm guessing not. "Gently needling" comes along later -- passion and
>loudness comes first.
.
>(This fervor applies to favorite teams, or rock bands, as much as to
>anything else.)

When you put it that way, I absolutely agree. And you forgot to
mention wrestling stars.

But I wouldn't have carried on like Mr. Campbell even at the age of
17. I didn't act that way. The youthful fervor was present, just not
the oral combativeness. That latter is what I'm criticizing in Mr.
Campbell.

I agree with you about youthful fervor, but the choice of action is an
individual matter typically dependent upon personality and character.
And so I was never a fist-slamming, finger-pointing, accusatory,
witch-hunting Randroid like Mr. Campbell.

Even back then I knew that Rand was no militant-style atheist, and I
also took a lot of my cues from Howard Roark who never behaved like
a soap-box ideologue toward others, he simply lived his life, his
ideals.

I believe that if I was 17 years old and a Randroid again, I would be
completely perplexed, perhaps even astonished, by Mr. Campbell's
oratory, because it is completely and utterly un-Objectivist.

And yes, that's why a lot of Randroids here and other places rub me
the wrong way. I don't see these types toeing what I once subscribed
to as the Objectivist "line." The very idea of being a follower as
well as an egoist/individualist is completely self-contradictory.

>I think by referring to him as "Campbell" -- as if you're referencing an
>official source of somesort, and picking apart specific quotes -- you're
>treating a blow-off speech by a bright angry kid (raises hand) as if he
>was some highfallutin' philosophical target ripe for, uh, targeting.

"Mr. Campbell." It is a respectful sign of disrespect, just in case he
ever decides to come lurking around on this forum.

>(B) high school kids tend to get very excited about something that
>sounds good, and then gloss over the blank spots and simply quote the
>authority without making the words their own first (raises hand again).

That was the case with me. I was a high school student quoting
authority, but I didn't let it get out of hand because Rand's heroes
didn't come off that way. And so as a result I didn't behave typically
for a teenager, only the psychological fervor was present and that was
the only indicator that I was in a sense a rather "spirited teen."
--
I do not think that the retarded should be
allowed to come near children. ~Ayn Rand~