alt.energy.renewable

News wrote:
>
> "Morris Dovey" wrote in message

> > As a practical matter, the cost of the mechanism /is/ relevant -
> > because if the resources to put it in place aren't available,
> > then the system cannot be implemented. It is only after the
> > mechanism has been put in place and the capital cost recovered
> > that the cost /seems/ irrelevant.
>
> The point is "free energy/perpetual motion". Either one will give useful
> power when turning (well the free energy machines do). Cost of manufacture
> is not an issue in this point. Free energy devices are around and have been
> since the beginning of time.

Yuppers. I don't hold any hope at all for perpetual motion, but
the 'no cost for the energy itself' stuff has even been
_commercially_ available for quite a while.

> > The energy itself may indeed be free, but the delivery system
> > isn't - but if you can figure out a way to make it free, I'm
> > willing to stand in line. :-)
>
> The water can power anything not just turn a turbine. The old water wheels
> turned big wheels that powered machinery. The energy to power the machines
> was "free". It is quite simple to understand :)

Still no argument on the cost of the energy. Those old water
wheels that delivered the energy weren't free, believe me. In
more modern terms, the wheel and its support structure required
significant investment in tools, materials (remember that iron
was relatively expensive then, and steel was out of the
question), and skilled labor. I'd estimate that a
moderately-sized wheel might would require between two to three
man-weeks of sawyer work just for timbers and boards before any
actual construction could take place. It might be interesting to
discover just how many different trades might be involved and
what the labor/material contribution from each might have been.
If the wheel hadn't been built yet, then neither lumberman nor
teamster nor sawyer nor blacksmith nor wheelwright nor carpenter
(nor ...) was using power tools, and all of 'em needed to be
paid.

But yes, the water and gravity were free. :-)

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/