alt.education

Bob LeChevalier wrote:

>Jd wrote:
>>>>and believed in God?
>>>
>>>Some did. Some didn't. Many of those who did, did not agree on the
>>>nature and will of the God they believed in, so it cannot be honestly
>>>said that they believed in the same God, just because they used the
>>>same word to refer to him.
>>
>>According to their own words and as shown here in this thread, they were Christians who believed
>>that the God in their Bibles helped them found this nation.
>
>Which God was that. The one that Jews worshipped or the Trinitarian
>God that some but not all Christians worship or the deistic God of the
>Enlightenment, more symbol than entity, worshipped by people like
>Thomas Jefferson that considered Christ an ordinary human and moral
>teacher, and all the supernatural stuff to be metaphor or hogwash.
>
>>If you can produce references where they believed in Hinduism, or Islam etc. etc. please place it
>>here where we can all see it.
>
>Not necessary. It is merely sufficient to note that several did not
>attribute to the God of the Bible the nature that you attribute to
>him.

I'm underwhelmed. Again you offer rumor and gossip in support of your opinions. (BTW that is the
only way you can assert that the Constitution was written by pagans).

"Virtually every one of the 55 writers and signers of the United States Constitution were members of
various Christian denominations: 29 were Anglicans, 16 to 18 were Calvinists, 2 were Methodists, 2
were Lutherans, 2 were Roman Catholic, 1 lapsed Quaker and sometimes Anglican, and 1 open deist--Dr.
Franklin who attended every kind of Christian worship, called for public prayer, and contributed to
all denominations."

http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/heritage/heritage17.html

> (Moslem consider that their God is the same God as the one in
>the Bible, though). It is also worth noting that despite the
>occasional reference to God, you haven't been too successful at
>finding places where the founders mentioned Jesus. That YOU think a
>reference to God includes Jesus doesn't mean that they did.
>
>lojbab

What *I* think is irrelevant and beside the point. The words of the founding fathers speak for
themselves wrt the founding of America being aided by God Himself in their views.

"No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of
men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of
an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in
the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government the tranquil
deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has
resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without
some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the
past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves
too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me, I trust, in thinking that there are
none under the influence of which the proceedings of a new and free government can more auspiciously
commence." George Washington (First Inaugural Address - New York City, April 30, 1789)

“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of
Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of
Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” - John Adams

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the
government of any other." - John Adams

"The highest story of the American Revolution is this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the
principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." President John Adams

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God,
never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." - Alexander
Hamilton

And fyi they did specifically mention Jesus.....

"First of all, I . . . rely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins." - Samuel
Adams, Signer of the Declaration

"To my Creator I resign myself, humbly confding in His goodness and in His mercy through Jesus
Christ for the events of eternity." - John Dickinson, Signer of the Constitution

"I resign my soul into the hands of the Almighty who gave it in humble hopes of his mercy through
our Savior Jesus Christ." - Gabriel Duvall, U.S. Supreme Court Justice; selected as delegate to
Constitutional Convention

"This is all the inheritance I can give to my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one
which will make them rich indeed." - Patrick Henry

"I render sincere and humble thanks for His manifold and unmerited blessings, and especially for our
redemption and salvation by his beloved Son. . . . Blessed be his holy name." - John Jay, Original
Chief-Justice U.S. Supreme Court

"I am constrained to express my adoration of . . . the Author of my existence . . . [for] His
forgiving mercy revealed to the world through Jesus Christ, through whom I hope for never ending
happiness in a future state." - Robert Treat Paine, Signer of the Declaration

"I think it proper here not only to subscribe to . . . doctrines of the Christian religion . . . but
also, in the bowels of a father's affection, to exhort and charge them [my children] that the fear
of God is the beginning of wisdom, that the way of life held up in the Christian system is
calculated for the most complete happiness." - Richard Stockton, Signer of the Declaration

" My only hope of salvation is in the infnite, transcendent love of God manifested to the world by
the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins. I rely
exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly!" - Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration

"I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the
Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance, equal in power and glory. That the Scriptures of the
old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify
and enjoy Him." - Roger Sherman, Signer of both the Declaration and the Constitution

"I shall now entreat . . . you in the most earnest manner to believe in Jesus Christ, for "there is
no salvation in any other" [Acts 4:12]. . . .If you are not clothed with the spotless robe of His
righteousness, you must forever perish." - John Witherspoon, Signer of the Declaration

In fact, during the nations birthing process Congress bought 20,000 Bibles for the patriots:

"In 1777, while the colonies were struggling in the Revolutionary War, the First Continental
Congress called the Bible "the great political textbook of the patriots" and appropriated funds to
import 20,000 Bibles for the people."

http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/heritage/heritage19.html

ATTN newcomers: In case you missed it (due to it not being archived) here is the original post
which started this thread....

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"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye
should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy,
but now have obtained mercy." (1Peter 2:9-10)

Definition of the word "nation" in the above (from Strong's Greek dictionary): Strongs #1484:
"ethnos", a "race".

Therefore "holy nation" in the above is translated as "holy race".

You may have heard of generation X, the dot-com generation, the baby-boomers... well this has to do
with "generation chosen". Generation Chosen can simply be defined as a "holy race". All men
everywhere, reguardless of skin color or ethnicity qualify to possibly be included in this holy
race. The Apostle Paul coins the term "new creature"...

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all
things are become new." (2Corinthians 5:17)

Let me add here that though you may think of this as being a Christian concept, it is actually a
fulfillment of Jewish scriptures....

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar
treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of
priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of
Israel." (Exodus 19:5-6)

Let's save "covenant" issues for later.

For now let's consider the idea that America was not only founded by Christians, but was founded
with the approval of God Himself....

"In the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, often called the first American Constitution, written in
1638, the drafters said, "[We] enter into a combination and confederation together to maintain and
preserve the liberty and purity of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, which we now profess." This
document recognized for the first time that mankind's rights come from God."

"The Declaration of Independence, signed by the delegates to the Continental Congress, on July 4,
1776, stated that, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that
they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness - That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among
men...." "

"The Declaration of Independence acknowledges that mankind is created and that the Creator God
bestows the rights. That means, that no man can take them away, and that government, instituted by
God, is to protect those rights. By implication, government cannot deprive a person of those rights
absent due process of law. Thus, God gave mankind free will, and a function of government is to
protect the electorates exercise of free will. That is a Christian concept."

http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/heritage/heritage19.html

comments welcomed,

Jd (ZionsFire)

"And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my
name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." (Exodus 6:3)

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The covenant issue of a "holy nation" (mentioned by the Apostle Peter in the above) goes all the way
back to the Torah.....

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar
treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of
priests, and an holy nation." "These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of
Israel." (Exodus 19:5-6)

....As does the endless King\Priest concept which is shown in the (pre-levitical) lifetime of
Abraham:

Hebrews 7:1 "For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham
returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him"

Hebrews 7:2 "To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King
of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace"

Hebrews 7:3 "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days,
nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually."

So you see Bob, God has chosen to have a people unto Himself. And despite the inabilities and/or
failings of those people... what God has chosen happens.

later,

Jd

"Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." - Jesus (Luke 21:33)