alt.education

"Jd" skrev i en meddelelse
news:6v04t358puhk7660hvh10t5n6221vp5o4m@4ax.com...
> Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:45:29 +0000 in
>>tt41t31tknjmda9d8t438h4a8nrmplprqq@4ax.com, Jd wrote:
>>
>>> thomas p. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Jd" skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>news:g8kus3d1f4ij0nehbci4vvppisea3qhanf@4ax.com...
>>>>> thomas p. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, once again, no matter what some of the founders thought or said,
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> country was established on firmly
>>>>>>secular grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't make any sense. The founding fathers founded the country
>>>>> so it does indeed matter what
>>>>> they said and thought. Undoubtedly, they thought God had a hand in
>>>>> founding the Nation since
>>>>> afterall, that is what they said.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>What they actually wrote down and that became accepted as the founding
>>>>document for the US is what matters. Some of the founders you talk
>>>>about were deists, not Christians. Some rejected the divinity of Jesus
>>>>(all the deists and some of the others). Some were Christians. The
>>>>document itself reflected the thoughts of men such as Montesquieu,
>>>>Dederot, Voltaire, Rousseau, none of these were Christians; and no part
>>>>of the document is Christian; it is purely secular.
>>>
>>> What document are you referring to? There are a plethora of documents
>>> which do indeed mention God.
>>>
>>> If you are referring to the US Constitution, vitually all 55 of the
>>> authors/signers were Christians of one denomination or another....
>>
>>Oh look, he just noticed the Constitution doesn't yap about "god" so he's
>>gotta make a sudden swerve into "But they said 'god' at other times!"
>
> But it does. At least what is known as the first "American Constitution"
> does.....

It was a Constitution for one colony not for a state or the United states,
neither of which existed then.


>
> "In the Fundamental Orders of Connecticut, often called the first American
> Constitution, written in
> 1638, the drafters said, "[We] enter into a combination and confederation
> together to maintain and
> preserve the liberty and purity of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ,
> which we now profess." This
> document recognized for the first time that mankind's rights come from
> God."

What it did not do was to establish the US.



>
> "Long before the United States Constitution, the colonies had written
> documents that established
> government and citizen's rights under God's authority. The drafters of the
> U. S. Constitution were
> aware of these documents and considered them in drafting the document. The
> expression of America's
> early documents is unmistakably Christian. They were philosophically
> anchored in Biblical
> principles, and the expression of the colonists in these legal documents
> of what became the states
> was undeniably Christian. These documents recognized the existence,
> importance and nature of God."


Yes they did. Now how about the document that established the US?

>
> http://www.shalomjerusalem.com/heritage/heritage19.html
>
> For the upteenth time, America was founded by Christians who believed (had
> faith) that God was
> helping them establish a new nation.
>
> And for your information, they were not establishing a CHURCH/STATE. They
> were establishing a STATE
> to protect the CHURCH for all practicle purposes.
>
> The U.S. Constitution empowered the Supreme Court to rule thusly....
>
> "Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody
> the teachings of the
> Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in
> this sense and to this
> extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically
> Christian." - United States Supreme
> Court, 1892.

A judge may have said the above. It certainly is not part of any decision
made by the Court. If it was the US would no longer have freedom of
religion; there would be no problem with Christian teachings in public
schools etc.


>
> In addition, your constitution is inadequate due to the fact that
> sodomites and seculars alike have
> claimed that it was intended for them when in reality it wasn't....
>
> "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is
> wholly inadequate to the
> government of any other." - John Adams


The above is not found in the Constitution. The personal remarks of
individuals are not law.



>
> So here we are today.

Today, in the US, all people have the right to believe in any kind of god
they like or in no kind of god at all. They have the right to express their
opinions about the merits or lack thereof of any religious teaching. A
person is a citizen regardless of his religious beliefs or lack of his
beliefs. He can be any variety of Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu or any
other religion, or he can have no religion at all; he will still be a
citizen with all the rights of citizenship. If the Constitution was only
for the people you approve of, none of the above would be true.

>
> Jd
>
> "Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his
> prophets, so shall ye
> prosper". (2Chronicles 20:20)

I do not believe that. More importantly there are millions in the US who do
not believe that, yet they are still citizens. That clearly demonstrates
that you are wrong.