alt.education

"Jd" skrev i en meddelelse
news:hhd4t3l0pvnsakbe6r44qg8kvumocqhph6@4ax.com...
> Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:45:31 +0000 in
>>m271t3pii2a4rhe8drkpf09kkne0olfpv7@4ax.com, Jd wrote:
>>
>>> Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:09:58 +0000 in
>>>>g8kus3d1f4ij0nehbci4vvppisea3qhanf@4ax.com, Jd
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> thomas p. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, once again, no matter what some of the founders thought or said,
>>>>>> the country was established on firmly
>>>>>>secular grounds.
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't make any sense. The founding fathers founded the country
>>>>> so it does indeed matter what they said and thought.
>>>>
>>>>Dimwit, what they *wrote* is what governs us now. Not what they happened
>>>>to "think" about something. While what they "thought" may give insight
>>>>into what they wrote, the words of the Constitution are what govern this
>>>>nation.
>>>>
>>>>And the Constitution is secular. Whatever they "thought" about gods,
>>>>they *wrote* a secular document.
>>>
>>> The Declaration of Independence is not a secular document.
>>>
>>> George Washington's first inaugural address is not a secular document.
>>
>>Neither of which are the governing law of the United States.
>

> God rules the world.

That is your opinion. The objective fact is that the US was established as
a secular nation. That does not mean anti-god or anti any religion. It
merely means that the US government is secular. No law refers to a
religious belief for its justification. No law recognizes the authority of
any religion or any religious belief; such matters are the private concern
of individual citizens.


>
> Psalms 24:1 "The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof; the world,
> and they that dwell
> therein."
>
> Romans 13:1 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there
> is no power but of God: the
> powers that be are ordained of God."


If you believe in the Christian god, the above naturally has importance for
you. The laws of the US are not based on that belief, and many of your
citizens do not believe. Therefore you have the freedom to believe what you
want, as do others, that is the positive result of a secular state.

>
>>
>>
>>> There are hundereds if not thousands of Governmental documents that are
>>> not secular.

Cite one. Hint: Political speeches are not government documents.


>>
>>Because politicians *never* pander.
>>
>>> But you simply cannot deny that America was indeed founded by "faith" in
>>> God and that the founders statements which are a matter of public
>>> record, prove that beyond any doubt.
>>
>>
>>
>>There is not a single aspect of our Constitution that can be found in
>>Judeo-Christianity. You people keep spewing this crap about "faith" and
>>"god" and all but you cannot show how the Constitution can be derived
>>from the bible or any such thing.
>>
>>You are, simply put, full of shit. The actual record of the writing of
>>the Constitution shows its origins to clearly be British common law,
>>Greco-Roman law, and some strong Native American influence (particularly
>>the Iroquois). Nobody cited the babble and used that to craft any part of
>>our Constitution.
>

> Says who? You? You'd be better off in the long run if you would steer
> clear of gossipy
> women and jester fags.

It would be nice if you could discuss the actual issue without junior high
insults. In any event it is not a personal opinion that the Constitution is
based on British common law among other things, the writings of John Locke
and the philosophes of the Enlightenment for example; that is a rather basic
fact of American history learned or at least taught in high school. I would
appreciate an answer that had relevance to the above instead of a personal
insult. For example you could provide one quote from the Constitution that
mentions any religious basis for the government, any preference for
Christianity, or any god at all.

>
>>In fact, the Christianity of the day was neck deep in "divine right of
>>kings" and state religions. Our revolution was in part a rebellion
>>*against* the Christianity of the day. For decades after the founding of
>>the US, the churches--particularly the RCC--condemned the US as being "in
>>error" for ideas such as democracy, freedom of religion, and separation
>>of church and state.
>

> More hearsay and gossip. Did some ghost tell you that or was it the aliens
> in the mother ship
> which abducted and brainwashed you? Perhaps you recently read something on
> a ACLU website link?
> Yeah that's it www.lies.com .

No, once again, it is not hearsay. It is a fact of history. Both
Protestant and Catholic churches in Europe supported the divine right of
kings, laws forbidding all other religions except the established one of the
particular state, suppression of free speech etc. Nearly all the countries
had an established church with no or less freedom and legal rights for
others. In England, to name one example, only members of the Church of
England could attend a university. I will ask you what I have asked you
before; can you name one item in the Constitution that was derived from a
Christian teaching of that time? Instead of repeating your claim that it is
a Christian nation give an example.

>
>>What you're pushing is barely worthwhile as fertilizer for roses...
>
> Well yeah, I can understand how and why you might be ingorant of
> historical facts.
> The slave mentality has caused you to be blinded to anything other than
> your own personal
> victimhood. You must 'resist tha' masta' no mater what and by any means
> possible.
>
> "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant
> of sin." Jesus (John 8:34)
>
> Jd
>
> "But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the Lord, and of judgment,
> and of might, to declare
> unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin." (Micah 3:8)

The above does nothing to support your claim. I believe that we have
grasped that you disapprove of the people who disagree with you, but do you
actually have something that supports your claim?