alt.education

"Jd" skrev i en meddelelse
news:auc9s3t3rf7c1n8jnib7m1e4e4ajeg4rp0@4ax.com...
> thomas p. wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jd" skrev i en meddelelse
>>news:j6s6s3tg0crtg65c4adr0cg01kqq8jrspu@4ax.com...
>>> thomas p. wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Jd" skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>news:42dsr3tnlt3s2fcaq7kb2ov2d5uinr19pe@4ax.com...
>>>>> thomas p. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Jd" skrev i en meddelelse
>>>>>>news:9socr31q2jni7qpvnvokcel693epqg6nu7@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:22:41 +0000 in
>>>>>>>>pd77r31tebttk3kkto9m8oe15sns3lttn0@4ax.com, Jd
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 00:07:10 +0000 in
>>>>>>>>>>u1s1r3d5qod6aaktejvuhl8eob0euku0c5@4ax.com, Jd
>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 02:33:07 +0000 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>fbtsq3lt5g4p606fjf6d46ufsboin08l7g@4ax.com, Jd
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob LeChevalier wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jd wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"But ye are a chosen generation,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Which generation is that JD?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Generation chosen". Can't you read?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bob, don't mess with me right now. For your own good.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Waddaya gonna do dingle berry? Smite him?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yikes amighty... ya'll atheists are a real tough bunch. Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> should beg for leniency?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>How 'bout just leave?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Nobody in a.a. takes you for anything but a buffoon. You must like
>>>>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>>>>laughed at...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What does everyone in a.a. take Jesus for?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Opinions range from a minor figure about which myths grew to totally
>>>>>>>>mythical figure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I don't buy that there ever was a "Jesus". There's no evidence the
>>>>>>>>man
>>>>>>>>existed. Even if there was a person or persons on which the myths
>>>>>>>>were
>>>>>>>>originally based, the Jesus of the New Testament didn't exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fine. That's your opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> George Washingtons opinion was that God was involved in the founding
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> America.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jd
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>People have a right to their opinion. If it was Washington's opinion,
>>>>>>so
>>>>>>what? The Constitution is the founding document of the nation, and it
>>>>>>does
>>>>>>not mention any kind of god at all. It was not "God" but "We the
>>>>>>people"
>>>>>>who were the founders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The other founding document known as the Declaration of Independence
>>>>> states that "We the people" get
>>>>> our rights from God. The founders claimed the right to assume the
>>>>> power
>>>>> entitled them in order to
>>>>> declare independence.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The Declaration does not mention God but nature's God, i.e. the deist
>>>>god.
>>>>The Constitution is the founding document of the United States, and it
>>>>specifically states that it was "We the people..." who founded the
>>>>country;
>>>>many of those "people" were not Christians then and are not Christians
>>>>now,
>>>>but they are still included in "We the people". There is no mention of
>>>>Christianity or of the Christian god. Furthermore democracy, freedom of
>>>>religion etc. are not Judeo-Christian principles.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Here's another founding father on the matter.....
>>>
>>> "In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and
>>> Christians,
>>> to reflect that whilst
>>> every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending
>>> judgments,
>>> .at the same time all
>>> confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on
>>> that God rules in the armies
>>> of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are
>>> but
>>> foolishness." - John
>>> Hancock
>>>
>>> How many of the founding fathers were 1)muslims 2) hindus 3) buddhists
>>> or
>>> 4) wiccans?
>>
>>What difference does it make what they were? The Constitution is still
>>the
>>founding document. It still says nothing about any god. It still says
>>"We
>>the people" founded the nation, and that still includes people who are not
>>Christian. Anybody can have a personal opinion including those called
>>"the
>>Founding Fathers". It does not change the fact that Christianity is not
>>mentioned in the document or that freedom of religion, democracy etc. are
>>not Judeo-Christian principles.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> BTW George Washington received a personl copy of the first handwritten
>>> draft of the Declaration of
>>> Independence which he read to his troops....
>>>
>>> "After its [Declaration of Independence] adoption by Congress on July 4,
>>> a
>>> handwritten draft signed
>>> by the President of Congress John Hancock and the Secretary Charles
>>> Thomson was then sent a few
>>> blocks away to the printing shop of John Dunlap. Through the night
>>> between
>>> 150 and 200 copies were
>>> made, now known as "Dunlap broadsides". The first public reading of the
>>> document was by John Nixon
>>> in the yard of Independence Hall on July 8. One was sent to George
>>> Washington on July 6, who had it
>>> read to his troops in New York on July 9."
>>
>>And all of that is totally irrelevant to the claim you are making.
>
> Me? It was the first commander in chief, the first President who made the
> claim in his first
> inaugural address to "we the people"....


No he didn't, and, if he had, it would not have changed the law (the
Constitution); which set up a secular state with freedom of religion for all
including those of no religion.


>
> "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which
> conducts the affairs of
> men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have
> advanced to the character of
> an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of
> providential agency; and in
> the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united
> government the tranquil
> deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from
> which the event has
> resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have
> been established without
> some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the
> future blessings which the
> past seem to presage." - George Washington (First Inaugural Address - New
> York City, April 30, 1789)
>
> ... for some reason you seem to want to give me credit for coming up the
> the idea that God founded
> America.

For some reason you think that if you can find somebody in the 18'th century
who said something or who you claim said something that supports your idea
it makes it true. It doesn't. The founding of the US was accomplished
through law (the Constitution). It makes no difference what anybody might
have said in a letter or in a speech; it is the law that describes how the
US was founded, and it was not founded as a religious state or based on any
Christian idea.