alt.education

On 30 mrt, 00:18, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> On Mar 29, 8:34=A0am, buckeye wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Darrell Stec wrote:
> > >:|
> > >:|I hope you realize, Buckeye, that I was not directing my comments tow=
ard you
> > >:|but rather that idiot Antoinin Scalia and those of his ilk.
>
> > The problem, of course, is they would claim that the Ten Sound bites the=
y
> > refer are not the ones you are using, thus they would ignore your entire=

> > funny and wonderful =A0argument
>
> > They would say these are what they refer too
>
> > You shall have no other gods before me =A0
> > You shall not make for yourself an idol =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> > You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> > Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy =A0
> > Honor your Father and Mother =A0 =A0
> > You shall not murder* =A0
> > You shall not commit adultery =A0
> > You shall not steal =A0 =A0
> > You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor =A0
> > You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. house, property etc =A0
>
> > Thus that would allow them to happily go on their way continuing to say =
our
> > laws are based on the 10 sound bites =A0 oooops Commandments
>
> Except for murder, stealing and lying, these aren't the basis for our
> laws.
>
> Josh Rosenbluth- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

The mistake is probably due to the fact that for many people that part
of the decalogue that is repeated in the new testament is part of
their conscience, and being good patriots, they assume their countries
laws are derived from it too.
Spiritually they are right, but technically there is distinct
difference.

No countries law actually requires children to honour their parents.
Even the plight to take financial care of them - which Jesus
apperantly wanted to enforce - has in many countries been taken away
from them, being replaced by a goverment pension. Of course the
general idea is still behind it. So your opponents do have a point
here.

As for murder. One should remember that the New testament sees this
much broader than murder. Any violence - even verbal violence - Jesus
saw as being a sin against this command. And indeed here the laws of
mordern nations follow him suiit, as one is not allowed to perform
slander. However insulting words that do no really involve slander are
allowed. (you can say "you are an asshole" but you (normally) cannot
say "you are a thief")

When it comes to stealing, there can be no mistake "possesion is 9/10
of the law".

As for false evidence. Modern law follows the old testament more than
the new. For Jesus all lies are meant. The original word seems to mean
perjury only.

Another thing is adultery. If I am not mistaken in some states it is
still a crime. Not so long ago (up to 1971!), Italy was trying to be
more "Christian" by outlawing divorce. (they forgot that Jesus meant
one-sided divorce by the males dissicion only) All in all however as
society is leaning towards greater individual freedom, marriage is
being treated more and more as just another contract between partners.

As for the last commandment. Jesus clearly rephrased that into "love
thy neigbour" meaning that it does not say we cannot be envious about
what our fellow man has, but that we should activily see to it that he
can have a family (a wife) and the means to support it (an oxen). This
is in fact implemented in many societies. It is especially the case in
places where socialism has influence. Though the communists made the
mistake of not granting a man an oxen, but making all oxens state
property instead :-)

As always Christians may be technically wrong, spiritually they do
have a point.
The difference between me and them being mainly that I consider
spiritual things to exist in the (human) brain only.

But in one way they do not have a pont, even spiritually. The first
three (yes I know many people would say four) are NOT the basis of
national laws.
They are also not repeated in the Gospels :-).

Every citizen of a country with secular humanist laws can worship all
the idols he wants, and make as many statues of them as fit into in
private home.
(and many states erect statues for their own idols)

Anyone can use the name of JHVH as he sees fit, You can call yourselve
his wittness ore whatever. Also anyone can proclaim to speak in his
name,
without being procecuted for slander or perjury.

Nobody is being forced to honour a special day connected with this God
(though people have the right to do so and others should not infringe
on that right)
You can have your holy day on the Sabbath or on a Sunday, thought
sunday being more popular enjoys more protection. But if you need to
work on such a day, the law also makes it possible.

Snipped Bush, kept the rest of the crossposting

Peter van Velzen
March 2008
Amstelveen
The Netherlands