alt.education

Sigh...the lies continue....not like I expected otherwise....see below

On Mar 5, 6:27 pm, "Larry Hewitt" wrote:
> "Wide Eyed in Wonder" wrote in messagenews:9ad128d2-25ed-4e22-b867-a9fc9df3fafc@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Mar 5, 3:39 pm, "Larry Hewitt" wrote:
>
> >> > Oh, and I took note that you didn't apologize for your false charges
> >> > that I had no education training, when you were informed otherwise.
>
> >> I said no such thing.
>
> >> I said you did not have a degree in ed, and hat rtraingin you did have
> >> was
> >> not equivalevt to that degree.
>
> > Perfect. Thank you for bringing the conversation DIRECTLY to the
> > point. Is alternative certification equivalent to a degree's
> > qualification. The state of Florida says that is true for ABCTE
>
> NO IT DOES NOT.
>
> According to the link Bob provided for Hillsborough County _at best_ ABCTE
> is one path a candidate can take to get into the county/state alternative
> certification program.
>
> You CANNOT teach only with an ABCTE
>

Do you understand temporary certificates? You can teach WITHOUT ABCTE
under a temporary certificate, while you are finishing your other
requirements, just like student teachers, just like the district
alternative certification plan, etc.

> > (Florida accepting them as competent). You disagree?
>
> Florida does not accept ABCTE "graduates" as competent.
>
> It accepts ABCTE as verification of 3, and only 3 things.
>
> 1. You passed a criminal background check.
>
> 2. You hace a legitimate BS degree.
>
> 3. You have passed certain competency exams.
>
> No more, no less. You do not get into a classroom until you complete
> preservice training, and passing si not guaranteed.
>
> At this point an ABCTE grad is elegible for entry into the county/state
> program, no different from a person who walked into the district office and
> took THEIR FBI form to the state police to get fingerprinted, showed their
> degree to a district officer who called the college to verify it, and took
> the competency exams on their own.
>
> No more, no less.
>
> BOTH must the get a job, get the STATE temporary certificate, and still meet
> the state demands for additional training and classroom acheivement.
>

You mentioned twice, there, that ABCTE graduates are required for
extra training. First, you said, "preservice training" and then
"additional training." I'll ask you to provide a link as reference
for this, since I know that no such requirement exists.

Indeed, the district alternative certification program of the district
requires that candidates take online classes and be observed in the
classroom, while ABCTE graduate are required ONLY to be
observed....thus, they accept ABCTE as equal to their own online
training.

> > Indeed, I believe you said you were from South Carolina. ABCTE is
> > ALSO accepted in South Carolina as a path to teacher qualification
> > (South Carolina accepting them as competent). Are you saying your own
> > state is incorrect?
>
> I'm saying you do not understand the process.
>
> In SOuth Carolina, as in Florida, an ABCTE is no more than a first step, a
> foot in the door.
>
> You CANNOT teach in either state with just an ABCTE, but it can gain
> entrance a little more easily into the state alternative rograms than other
> paths, especially for those who are less qualified and need to polish their
> training..
>

False...see above

> South Carolina is far more restrictive than ABCTE.
>
> For example YOU would not be allowed to enter the South Carolina PACE
> (alternative) program with your degree and SC does not allow alternative
> paths to elementary ed.
>
> Eligibility Requirements
> a.. An earned bachelor's degree or above from a regionally accredited
> college with a major in an approved PACE certification area. Participants
> can be evaluated for a major equivalent if they have thirty or more semester
> hours earned in content area coursework, twenty-one of which were earned at
> the junior or senior level or above; or twenty-four or more semester hours
> earned in content area coursework at the graduate level.
> To spell it out, if you don't have BS in math then you must prove that you
> have taken at least 10 math classes, 7 of them advanced (300 level or above,
> calc I and calc II are 200 level).
>

Let's stay on topic, here. You were critical of ABCTE. I know I
could not teach in South Carolina in Elementary Eduction...it's not
offered through ABCTE there. That wasn't my point. My point was that
ABCTE WAS accepted and used by South Carolina. You said ABCTE
graduates were incompetent in their TEACHING skills (not subject
matter). Yet, South Carolina disagrees with you.

> SC also requires the PRAXIS subject exam(s), not the ones you took. I don't
> know how the ABCTE is affected.

And, with ABCTE graduates in Florida, you must complete three exams,
as well. You must complete the Florida tests in general knowledge
and subject area tests in order to get into the classroom (EXACTLY as
S.C.). Then, you must take and pass a third teaching test to get
professionally certified. Florida considers ABCTE's teaching test on
par with their own.

>The Principals of Learning and Teaching exam
> does not need to be passed until the third year.
>

This would actually be an advantage to the ABCTE way of doing things,
since, with ABCTE, you would have completed the teaching test PRIOR to
entering the classroom, unlike YOUR system that would allow people
into the classroom to teach without evaluation of their teaching
knowledge.

> AS I noted earlier, even ABCTE grads must take and pass a pre-service
> education program AND additional education and training over the THREE
> consecutive years, including 3 MAT courses, to keep their temp cert and to
> become permanently certified.
>

Do you have a link for that? This site says you are wrong..
http://www.scteachers.org/Cert/certpdf/ABCTE.pdf

It says all ABCTE graduates must do is be observed and take a test.
There is NO mention of preservice training or other courses.

> To date only 8 ABCTE grads have applied, and to date not one has entered a
> classroom (5 have been hired for the fall, granted state temp certs and are
> in preservice training, 1 apparently dropped out of the process, and 2 are
> seeking employment for the fall.)

You cannot possibly know that. Provide a link.

Kenneth Clifton
christiansuperhero.com